December 11, 2020

How Emerson Scales Human Centered Design and Development: MURAL Imagine Recap

Nicole Smith

Senior Marketing Programs Manager @ MURAL. Previously @ Salesforce. Passionate about strategic integrated marketing programs, advocacy marketing, community building, and rescue dogs.

Scaling visual thinking at Emerson

This season on MURAL Imagine, we're bringing you live sessions and workshops to shine a spotlight on companies that have embraced change in 2020. One of these changemakers is Emerson, a global technology, engineering, and manufacturing company that helps its customers automate, monitor, and optimize production processes.

Emerson’s Christina Koffskey and Mary Grace Francisco joined host Lindsey Eatough for a live MURAL Imagine session to share how they’re scaling visual thinking across the organization and using MURAL to collaborate digitally.

Watch the recording below, or read on to learn how the Emerson team approaches product design and development, even when they can’t be in the same room. Then, borrow Emerson’s template for conducting usability testing with remote participants.

Learn more about how Emerson is scaling design thinking in this case study.

The Human Centered Design Institute

Design thinking is embedded in the culture at Emerson. The company’s Human Centered Design Institute is a group that’s dedicated to scaling design thinking across the organization. Its goal is to educate teams at Emerson about the LUMA System of Innovation and put human centered design into practice.

One member of this group is Christina Koffskey, a human centered design engineer. During Emerson’s MURAL Imagine session, she explained why human centered design is so powerful.

“The value of human centered design is knowing that you are not only building the thing right, but building the right thing,” Christina emphasized. “Taking a human centered design approach is not adding more time into the process, which can be a common misconception. It’s just reshifting where you put your focus and bringing users into that process.”

“The value of human centered design is knowing that you are not only building the thing right, but building the right thing.”

💡 Christina Koffskey, Human Centered Design Engineer | Emerson


For a long time, that process involved getting everyone together in the same room, armed with sticky notes and a big, empty wall. But at the end of the day, Christina said, participants always asked one thing: How do I do this with a distributed team?

That’s where MURAL came in. By bringing everyone together in a digital workspace, teams at Emerson could finally facilitate workshops and collaborate visually from anywhere in the world.

“We virtualized our LUMA training — that introduction to human centered design thinking — and it was a huge success. We saw just as much engagement and learnings when we did it virtually as we typically do in an in-person workshop,” Christina said. “That is going to really open doors to the reach that we have to do more World Area training and get even more people thinking with that design thinking lens.”


One product team’s Agile transformation

One of the teams seeing massive success with MURAL and design thinking is Emerson’s DeltaV technology group. Mary Grace Francisco, user experience design lead, joined the MURAL Imagine session to talk about her team’s Agile transformation and how MURAL helped.

Two years ago, the group shifted from waterfall product development to the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe). Grace shared some of the benefits she’s seen from the transformation, including:

📆 Collaborative planning

Instead of the team being told “here’s what you need to build,” the people doing the work are now deeply involved in the planning process.

🤝 Tighter collaboration

Now, the Development team and the Marketing team work closely together throughout the planning and development process.

💬 Better communication

They facilitate regular retrospective and town hall meetings to keep everyone aligned and give them the opportunity to reflect on the good, the bad, and the ugly.

🎯 Customer centricity
By working closely with their customers and putting them at the center of the product development process, Emerson can more efficiently identify and solve for their biggest challenges.

The shift to Agile was accelerated and democratized by the adoption of MURAL. For the first time, team members in Manila were able to fully participate in PI planning. Decisions could be made quickly with MURAL’s built-in voting feature. And everyone had an equal chance to contribute — including introverts and others who might typically stay silent.

Remote think-aloud usability testing

Another way they use MURAL is for user experience research. Christina explained that usability testing is still relatively new to the team. “Whatever you can do to lower that barrier and make it more accessible, make them feel comfortable doing it,” she said, “that's the cherry on top."

So, to lower the barrier to entry and make usability testing easy and effective, Grace created a MURAL template to walk her team through the process.

The Think-Aloud Usability Testing template, which Grace demoed for us, is just for internal use — the customer never sees it. The researchers use it to take notes during testing sessions so they can keep track of all their data in one place.


Screenshot of Emerson's usability testing template


Then, they can visualize, organize, and synthesize that data right in MURAL using their Key Takeaways template, which you can see a snippet of here:


Screenshot of Emerson's Key Takeaways template


This year has been undeniably tough, but it’s paved the way for innovation like we’ve never seen it before. So, what does the future of design look like at Emerson? Grace and her team are finding new ways to elevate customer voices and bring them into the design process. Meanwhile, Christina is focused on expanding the adoption of human centered design across the organization, whether folks are in-person or remote.


“This year has forced us to approach things in different ways [and] to digitize things in a way that I really hope that we continue using … even when things can be done in person again.”

💡 Christina Koffskey, Human Centered Design Engineer | Emerson


Get Emerson’s usability testing template

Want to conduct usability research from anywhere in the world? Use this MURAL template, created by our friends at Emerson, to guide you through the process using the exercises that Grace shared in the session.

Bonus:
Get their Key Takeaways template here.

Get started from template

Session transcript

Lindsey Eatough: [00:00:00] Good morning, good afternoon, good evening--and I see people from the UK coming in--and welcome to MURAL Imagine. Um, I'm Lindsey Eatough. I'm one of our associate directors of Enterprise Transformation, and I will be your guide through today's session. 

We kicked off MURAL Imagine earlier this year to bring together people from around the world to share ideas and foster discussions and collaboration to see how people work differently. So whether an expert in facilitation or simply committed to solving hard problems through visual thinking collaboration, MURAL Imagine is your space to learn, understand, understand, share, and grow.

I'm extremely excited today, excited about today's session--you can probably tell how excited I am--um, because our guests are Christina Koffskey and Grace Francisco from Emerson.

Christina Koffskey: [00:01:07] Hello, we're glad to be here. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:01:09] Well these are just two incredible, amazing individuals that I have gotten the pleasure, and really great fortune, to know over the past couple of years.

So Christina is human-centered. She's a Human-Centered Design engineer. Thank you. Uh, and Grace is a user experience design lead. So we'll have them, um, we'll kind of, you'll get to meet them in a, in a second here, but today Christina and Grace will be sharing a bit of their journey of how they've not only kept Human-Centered Design, um, a priority in 2020, but they've also found new ways to share and scale visual thinking. They're extremely innovative when it comes to collaboration and just kind of making it easier than ever to understand their customers, uh, prototyping projects and products, uh, how you [00:02:00] conduct agile PI planning--I know that might be a hot topic for some of our listeners today--and more. So as you're listening and learning--and I promise I'm almost done--um, feel free to ask any questions in the Q and A. Um, there's a little Q and A panel in the Zoom, and we'll have, we're going to be saving about 15 minutes at the end to go through them with you as long as I'm not super verbose as we go through.

So welcome, just the biggest welcome. I'm a fan girl over here. Um, thank you for joining us today, guys. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:02:33] Thank you thank you, it is our pleasure to be here. Um, as Lindsey said, we are from Emerson, and I can tell you a little bit more about Emerson if you are unfamiliar, uh, with us. Uh, but we are a large global company that almost does a little bit of everything. Um, we're a technology engineering and manufacturing company, uh, that services, uh, the industrial and commercial and residential space. Um, Grace and I are part of the automation solutions business. And so we primarily serve industries such as automotive, pharmaceutical, oil and gas, and food and beverage as well. Uh, if you think about their automated processes, we provide solutions and services, uh, that help measure, monitor, and control those processes.

A little bit about Emerson. We don't make TVs. I get that question all the time.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:03:23] All the time. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:03:24] We're not the TV company. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:03:26] Well, thank you for sharing that. We've had this relationship for, what is it, four, three years?

Christina Koffskey: [00:03:33] I think, yeah. Time flies. I feel like it's been three or four years now. Three has been in my head, but I feel like the year 2020 has flown by so fast. I feel like it's four years now, um, that we've, uh, been a partner with you guys like 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:03:47] Maybe you can highlight a little bit of some of the numbers of, like, MURAL and Emerson. And I know that we're going to dive into a little bit about what that adoption looked like.

Christina Koffskey: [00:03:56] Sure. So right now we have about 370, [00:04:00] um, MURAL members across the organization. Uh, we've got about over a hundred templates that are being used and leveraged within the, our Emerson workspace. Um, we've seen, as you all can probably imagine, that, um, back in March, uh, once. COVID hit the US, our adoption and usage kind of skyrocketed and accelerated, uh, when everyone, um, had to go work from home and they were looking for a remote collaboration platform.

And so I was...I was happy to see the increase usage, um, because it's been a tool that I've been very passionate about, um, in the practice of Human-Centered Design. And so being able to see other teams get their hands on it and see the benefit and value from it as well, uh, has been, has been really cool, 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:04:49] Well, it's super interesting that you said that too, because I know that, you know, in March and April, when we were having some of the conversations with everything going on, I always thought to myself, you know, they're almost prepared for it, you know? Not prepared for... no one, I mean, prepared, right? In terms of working and trying to collaborate and thinking about, How do we do Human-Centered Design digitally? I'm going, I'm not going to use the word remote or virtual or anything. Digitally. And that's where our kind of, our relationship first started. The whole, the objective was: how do you do Human-Centered Design in a digital fashion?

Because you guys were flying all around the world, and everybody couldn't always be there. So maybe you could talk a little bit about, you know, how did adoption of MURAL start at Emerson? You coud start right there, if you're good with that. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:05:38] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm part of the Human-Centered Design Institute, uh, within the Emerson Automation Solutions business, and our goal is to educate, up-skill, um, all of our teams in the practice of Human-Centered Design. And we leverage the Luma system of innovation. [00:06:00] That's the framework that we have adopted, uh, to innovate through Human-Centered Design. And so our journey with MURAL got started because we've been running introductory courses and trainings for a while. And one of the... which, uh, if you're unfamiliar, uh, it includes a lot of posts or sticky notes or post-it notes, um, a lot of things happening on the wall. Exactly, exactly. A lot of collaboration in those, in that kind of workshop environment. And, um, at the end of it, we'd always constantly get questions like, "This is great. I love this and I want to use this. How do I do it with my team that is in Manila?" Or, "How do we do it with my team in, in India? Because we are a large, global company, so a lot of our teams are distributed, in a way." And I never had a good answer for them.

So that was one of the prompts of what got us started looking. Um, but also when we were doing in-person, um, workshops, it was great. The engagement and collaboration in the session was high. Um, but then we wanted, once everyone went back to their offices or outside of that workshop, we wanted it, the engagement to continue. And so it's like, How are they going to continue that when all we're doing is taking pictures of the wall? It's really hard to engage and keep that collaboration going. So we were looking for some sort of digital tool to enable that.

And that is kind of how we started this journey with, with MURAL. And it's been a great roller coaster since then. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:07:32] Um, I mean, cool. 

No, it's really... it's, it's, I remember some of our first conversations when it was, you know, um, "Okay, we're doing these workshops, right? We're... and we're training people and enabling them  how to do these do these workshops. Sometimes our team can't always fully get there. So how can we even support the facilitation of that or any of this work? Like, you're talking with PI planning, so, um, and with agile. So it's, it's super, it's super [00:08:00] interesting and impressive,you and the team, and where you've gotten to.

Christina Koffskey: [00:08:05] Yeah. So, so it, it's grown from that kind of initial focus, but, uh, once you experience MURAL, you are a fan and you want to have it. You want to be able to use it for your work. So the usage has grown, uh, kind of organically out of that. Um, and there are pockets, uh, strong pockets of usage. And one of those teams that has really, uh, adopted MURAL and run with it is the Delta V technology group, which grace is a part of. They, I think about two years ago, started a safe agile transformation, so shifting a lot of the way that they work and they have been able to leverage MURAL, uh, to help with that shift.

I think Grace is going to tell us a bit more about how, how that's going. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:08:51] Yes, let's hear it.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:08:59] The topic, isn't it? How shift happens around, or has happened, at Emerson? Uh, I'm Grace Francisco. Um, Everything and anything that Christina Koffskey just talked about, the teaching of Human-Centered Design, upscaling. So the difference between her role and my role is that, in product development, we actually do those things. For example, one of the techniques that, um, uh, Christina evangelized on is affinity clustering, right? And so grouping things together, keep key patterns. We actually do that. And we do that in MURAL.

[00:09:36] But anyhow, um, you know, some of the shifts, the biggest shift, um, that has happened as of late, Christina alluded this already, um, that big shift from traditional waterfall product development process into the safe agile framework. Hopefully some of you are familiar with that. Basically, [00:10:00] we now have shifted to doing product development work within 10 weeks at a time. The PI stands for Program Increment, by the way. And so that's definitely one key big shift. The other thing that that shift has allowed us to do is actually allowing the agile teams to plan the work, you know? We, Lindsey you're throwing your hands up, right? What a novel idea. And...

Lindsey Eatough: [00:10:28] So... Making makeshift happen.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:10:31] Yeah. I mean, a quote is like, before it was like, "Here you do this. This is what you need to do." But this time around, it's like, okay, we've got 10, 10 weeks. What are we going to work on? What features are we going to pull for the next 10 weeks? What are we going to accomplish? So that's another big, big shift also, um, that relationship, that collaboration within the agile teams and the product marketing manager.

Uh, we are planning things together. Like, if we're going to do validation of some sort, we're actually getting together and, like, what are we gonna want to learn from our customers? We have that tight collaboration. And our product marketing groups, they are part of the demo, you know? You complete it. This is what we completed. How do we, like, iterate on this? So it's definitely a ton of collaboration this time around.

Uh, also shifting communication. Here's the thing: it's happening more often. Yay. Um, people are actually listening with regard to... we do retrospectives. Like, what went well, what didn't go so well, what can we improve on.

Um, it's actually happening. Things are actually improving because, uh, our, our management is actually attending breakout sessions, you know? We have a retro. They're part of that retro, big management people. And so that's, that's an awesome, awesome thing to [00:12:00] see. Um, we have regular town hall meetings where everybody in the product development team gets together. "Okay. What are the complaints,, right? Let's all hear it out. Let's let's just, everybody, let's hear it so that we can move on to improve it." So, but if I were to sum up the biggest shift right now, as part of that is that customer centricity. We are fanatics about our customers,  right? As we ought  to, because really what you want to build, what you want to design, ought to be from the problems that our customers are experiencing, their pain points. Um, so basically we are moving to collaborative design and development with customers. Like, let's start with the why. Why are we doing this? Let's find out what are the pain points alongside our customers, and find out those things.

So based on that customer centricity, more like let's find out the problems, uh, just, just, uh, some of the ways that our agile teams have used MURAL, I'm sure. Lindsey, you would want, you already know a lot of this, but during program planning we have, uh, two days where we come together, we plan the work, we identify some of the milestones, um, dependencies, right? And so we have each of the agile teams have what we call a team board. Basically, a team board is dissecting Sprint One. What's all going to be pulled into Sprint One, Two, and Three, and Fou,r and so forth. But also, what we have is called a program board where, say we have 10 agile teams. All of the work that the agile [00:14:00] teams are defining for the next 10 weeks ends up in this big, massive program board so that we know what needs to get done first and what needs to get done next, and identifying some of the risks. If this doesn't happen, then we have a potential to be late in this area. So that's another thing. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:14:18] And, and I know that back for when PA planning first started, um, you guys were leveraging big sticky notes on the walls and doing it in the room, but your counterparts in Manila were disengaged from the activity. Uh, so that group was looking for a way to get them engaged. And so that's why there was such a, such a godsend at that point to create that engagement with the groups and the other world areas. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:14:44] Precisely. Um, also another example is UX, you know, ideation, collaboratively coming up with, um, as a team, you know, the problem space, right? Starting with the why. The scope of what we're trying to do here, generating ideas all in MURAL. Um, doing affinity clustering, you know, groupings that I talked about, and voting--we love voting around here, by the way--MURAL has this awesome, awesome voting functionality. Let me tell you, it's used every time, any time. When people come up with potential solutions, right? We vote on what resonates, what would solve the customer's problems.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:15:31] I'm going to celebrate voting. Someone shouldn't have given me facilitator access. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:15:37] It's true. Whenever I show someone that, they're like, "Oh, wow, cool. Yeah, we've got to use that." 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:15:44] I have a quick question for you, uh, Grace, as you're go, as you're going through this, because these are such great examples that I think probably resonate with everybody listening, you know, from an agile teams perspective. And, and I know that when we first met however many years [00:16:00] ago, I think you were at the beginning of that, of that journey. And that was probably what, end of 2018 that you were starting to look at MURAL, like using MURAL for PI planning for agile teams when you, as you were rolling out CIF. What, um, What's even like... these are some of the great ways that you're using... what are any of the kind of, you know, challenges that you ran into maybe. And how did you overcome that? You know, and sometimes it's a little bit difficult to, to get some, someone to adopt doing something in a different, different way.

So, um, I don't know if you want to talk to that for a second, because I know that we have a bunch to talk about, but as you're speaking through this it's, I'm, I'm trying to thinking along that line.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:16:39] Some challenges for, for the teams to adopt?

Lindsey Eatough: [00:16:44] Yeah.. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:16:46] It's, it's kind of intimidating at first. Like, how do I ...? But you know, starting with an ice breaker as simple as, "You know, what I used to do with Lindsey?" Like, for somebody that has never used MURAL, I would just find the pump in terms of "Here are the names of the participants" and just quickly show them how to add a star next to their name, like the drag and drop, and laying out the post-it notes. For example, like, people are not going to know right off the bat, how do you add a post-it note? So what you do is you lay out a bunch of post-it notes and just say, you know what? Pick one of the post-it notes, double-click on it, and start typing. Boom, done.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:17:32] So kind of like breaking it down to make it simple kind of thing. There's a whole change management aspect, aspect, right? You know, it's already challenging to learn something new, especially in this environment, right? And you know my, you know, my, my, my theme is empathy. So, um... 

Christina Koffskey: [00:17:51] Yeah. And I just want to add on to that. I think it's about building their confidence in using a new tool, um, because I mean, once you start using it, it's [00:18:00] pretty intuitive. It's just that initial kind of "Oh, this is new and I'm not sure where everything is." So doing a bit of onboarding... huge fan of warmups whenever I do. Um, a workshop with people that haven't used it before, I definitely throw a warm up in there, and then everything kind of seems to go much smoother. Um, and even after the fact, people that are using MURAL are like, "Dang it, Christina, how do you make your sessions go so smooth?" I'm like, "It's that warm up. That's all you need to get people going." 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:18:28] You know, it helps to share your screen in terms of, this is how you quickly drag and drop. And once they see it once, people are smart, so they can follow that thing right away.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:18:42] Right. It's a little actions, you, you know, you know what I mean?

So these are some impressive shifts. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:18:51] Yeah. So Lindsey, you know how I talked about the, one of the biggest shifts is that customer-centricity mindset, right? That said, guess what we've got a whole lot of lately? Not just validating the concepts and the ideas upstream, like when it's just like, "Is this a crazy thing? Are customers going to buy this?" You validate that.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:19:16] Should we talking about it?

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:19:18] Yeah. What do we thinking of? We invite our customers. Here's a crazy idea of ours. Hey, do a workshop with us.

But also downstream, right? Not just demoing the work that's completed by the agile teams, but also, let's say, uh, you've done like two PIs, which, that's 10 weeks, 10 weeks, 10 weeks. You've got an MVP but you've not released. How do we validate that? Can we do a usability study based on your MVP One so that you still have time, right, to adjust and pivot for next increment? And so with [00:20:00] that said, we're having to do more and more of that, but we created our own template, right, to make it a lot easier. There we go. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:20:08] MURAL template, people.

Christina Koffskey: [00:20:10] Because that's something that's new to the teams, um, is doing that customer validation and engagement. Um, so trying to lower the barrier to make it easier for them, uh, is, is what it's all about. And that's why Grace developed that awesome tablets.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:20:26] To help them, yeah. To help them get it done. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:20:29] If I remember correctly, it was more like "Lindsey, I'm looking for this. Surely, surely, you know, somebody has created something along these lines." In my head I knew, I knew what the elements needed to be for me to do this. And so you came back with, "Is this what you meant?" "No, not quite."

It was like an exchange of emails back and forth like... 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:20:51] I was like, "I just want to make, to make Grace proud. I know. Um, so any, any listeners from our team on the call, you probably know who you are.

So, um, can you orient me to this kind of output? I'm going to stop...start in the top left corner, but maybe you can kind of walk me through and, and walk the group through kind of like, what you've put together, the power behind this template, um, that we'll be making available. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:21:21] Absolutely. So I, I'm gonna, for the sake of time I'm going to focus, um, on the pre-work column. I don't know whos sharing, see where it says pre-work?

Lindsey Eatough: [00:21:33] Um, I'm, I've, I've taken over. Everybody's following everybody's following me.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:21:39] All right, just so... 

Christina Koffskey: [00:21:40] Grace, before you jump into the template, just, why don't you ground everybody in what remote think-aloud testing is for those that might not be familiar with this technique?

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:21:49] So this one particular one is basically, uh, your more formal-ish usability study, where, uh, you give participants a [00:22:00] task to accomplish, and basically it's saying remote think-aloud because you want them to be doing that as they're doing these tasks, right? Tell me what you're thinking right now. If I asked you to, uh, launch, uh, an application, I want you to tell me,"Okay, I think, I think it's, I'm going to go to the start button. I think." You know, it's just, as you're accomplishing these tasks, you know, thinking aloud gives us an idea of what... to us it's so obvious, but the user is not finding it. What's wrong with this? You know, what's wrong with us? 

Christina Koffskey: [00:22:35] Yeah. It gives that... the think-aloud piece gives that why they're doing something, the rationale behind it. And that's super helpful, uh, to, to hear and get that feedback. Yeah.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:22:44] And I want to do this cause I want to, like, let some listeners know: we're showing the MURAL right now, the template, just to kind of walk everybody through it. So I know that there's, some people are asking me, you know, should I be in the board? Am I, am I, am I missing something? No, just kind of sit back and relax and, and, and watch the show happen on the Zoom screenshare. Yeah, 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:23:07] good point. So before we get to the meat and the potato, which is really your task-based activities that you want the participants to do, I just want to kind of introduce what this whole pre-work is all about. To me it's really, really nice in that it literally kills three birds with one stone, right? Why do I say that? One, the top part is, it builds this alignment within the agile team. What exactly are we doing? What is this study all about? What are we trying to accomplish, you know? We have a hypothesis. We think that, by doing this study, as an example, this will improve our plant operat-- our customer's plant operations, if we allow them to do that, of some sort. So just getting alignment on what it is we're trying to do.

Making sure you're clear on your learnings. So that's one piece of it, right? But also, it gives the moderator a script to follow, basically. Um, Lindsey, if you can, you know,move it past the overview, just like this high level overview. We're going to start with a welcome, we're going to do an intro. Also, um, it gives the moderator or the facilitator, um, things they need to say in the beginning or sample. Yeah. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:24:30] What I really like about this template is--and if anyone's ever done usability testing before, you know, you have a script that you're going to go through. That up-front bit, the things you know you need to make sure that you say, task instructions, and that's oftentimes sometimes a separate document,a nd then you're taking notes somewhere else. This is that all-inclusive, comprehensive view. It is your test script. It is the place where you're taking notes and all the observers are taking notes. You can take screenshots of, of what they're interacting with, pace it in here and annotate on top of it. It's that all-inclusive kind of package when, when you're able to use it this way, which I love. I love that.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:25:07] It's that one stop shop, as you can...you know, Lindsey will, will zoom out a little bit, but it's like, it's a one pager. I can do a one pager. Yeah. So it's just also things like, don't forget to ask for permission to record. The reserves while you're recording.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:25:25] Remember. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:25:26] You're linked to the link to the prototype or software. If it has a usernamem password, it's just all in here, easy to copy and paste to send in the chat to whoever's participating, if they're going to need that to, to, to log in. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:25:39] So to your point, Christina, that's speaking to the logistics, right? The planning and the logistics. Yeah. It's all here. So you're not having to flounder when you're beginning the study, like, "Oh shoot, where is that linked to the virtual machine that we needed to use?" or "Shoot, where is the link to that prototype that the participant is going to interact with?" [00:26:00] And also, you know, one of my favorite things about this is, see that recording of meeting? This is the place where you drop. Like, okay, you've done it. And now some adult team members weren't able to be there in person. You know what? You can push the link over here and, at their own convenience, they can, um, view the recording. And one of our rules is, you cannot attend the debrief without you having, um, listened to this. Because how are you able to contribute? The whole thing is hearing directly from our customers, um, what they had to say, especially their pain points, right? And so that's that whole left-hand side pre-work. So, uh, Lindsey, if you can kind of zoom out, I'll kind of cover, you know, we'll just cover one of the tasks. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:26:47] I'm still, I'm slowly zooming so I don't make anybody a little seasick on the call.

So, so summary for, you know, my, my noggin to fully understand, is that this left side is, and the power to this template is that it's a one stop shop hub, essentially. Like, if you had a room that a full wall was dedicated just to understanding this person, right, or, or this, this amount of feedback, everything's there from before you talked to them, after you talked to them. It's just, uh, one stop. I guess one stop shop is the best thing. I'm going to come up with more analogies. But if it's right, it's right. All right. I'll zoom into one task. Yeah. Yeah, 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:27:34] no worries. So just to get this top section piece of it, Lindsey, where you see Alexander... 

Christina Koffskey: [00:27:39] Alexander Hamilton...

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:27:41] You're going to be talking to a whole lot of participants, right? And so you want to remember who the heck you talked to, what company they're from. And when they do this, right? So it becomes part of history and documentation as well. Uh, Christina was talking about that, you know, doing the icebreaker. [00:28:00] Get them to start to talk, like getting to know you, you know, what are you doing for your role? How long have you been doing that? And a favorite of ours is, how long have you been working with Delta V products? We want to know that. Are we talking to a beginner of a user of Delta V, or are we talking about 20 plus years you've been working with our products?

Um, also to the right of that is setting the context. So just orientating or managing their expectations with regard to, you know what, take five minutes. This is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to start, and this is how we're going to, um, the end. So we're just going to allow you to navigate, we're going to allow you to search for content. And then we're just gonna ask for your opinion.

Christina Koffskey: [00:28:42] Yeah.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:28:44] It's so simple. It's like, I think that's something that doesn't happen as much during the virtual digital remote kind of world right now, of not everybody kind of setting expectations of what do you want for them? And just, tell me that, if you're, if you're going to be taking some of my time, right, just tell me exactly what you want, exactly what we mean, what we're going to go through. And, and I think that you get... also with these templates everything's already kind of created for you, so you don't have to think about, okay, getting all the setup, right? You're really just focusing on what you're getting out of them, right?

Christina Koffskey: [00:29:17] Yeah. Yeah. And these two upfront, those kind of getting to know you questions in this setting, the context of what they can expect. Um, it's all about trying to make them feel comfortable. You know, when you're participating in, in user testing or usability testing, it's natural to feel kind of anxious, like, kind of feel like, "Oh, I want, I want to do a good job" or, you know, to be nervous. So it's all about--and we're all comfortable usually and about ourselves--so prompting with some initial softball questions, just to get them comfortable talking and then adding that, yeah, I think that additional context, um, is again, it's all about making them try to feel comfortable before we get into the bit where they're going to be doing most of the talking. Um, so making them feel, uh, again, kind of comfortable and relaxed. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:30:00] I like it.

So these tasks. You've organized yourself on the left-hand side--and I know, I know I'm using my hands a lot, even though we're looking at the MURAL--so on the left-hand side, we're setting up, we're doing the pre-work on the top. We are kind of just setting the, the session right of, um, you know, getting them warmed up. Like Christina was just saying, to be willing to talk to you, you know? Um, and then, so now there's the tasks. Grace, you want me to just go to the first task, right? And I'll kind of hone in.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:30:33] Yeah, because it's basically a cut and paste for all the rest. You know, the task that you have here depends on how many learnings or how many things you want them to do, right? Let's just kind of talk about the first task here. Um, you know, give them a high level overview. What's, what's going to be the point of, of task one? Perhaps the goal of task one is all about, okay, how do you launch this thing? If I give you this new feature, where do you think you need to launch it, or access this thing? This is a real example, actually, and this was released. So is it's safe in terms of, it's not, you know, things I'm not supposed to be giving.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:31:12] For a second I was like, "Uh-oh, it was the wrong one."

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:31:17] This, actually this one particular one--and, and the, the template will be empty, but I, we thought it would be helpful to just kind of show you a real world example. Uh, our Delta V help documentation has never gone through a usability testing before. Imagine that. It's like, from the very beginning to now, 20-something years, Christina, it's not done for a usability testing. So this is what we did. Let's find out what's working, what's not working, and how do we improve that? This one particular study was that. And so, you know, the main goal, and then what are the sub tasks that you want them to do? With this one it's: Okay, how do you launch help documentation? There are several different ways [00:32:00] they can access help documentation for Delta V. We're just trying to find out, do they only know of one way? Okay, if not, okay. We've got to do something about this because they can access it in so many different ways, right? You give them an instruction, launch Delta V, help document it. And you, watch them how they do it. I love having a screenshot of what they're going to be interacting with. Do you know why? Because, as a team, you can like directly add a post-it note on that one particular spot that they're, like, having trouble with. Exactly. Like had no idea. I did not even notice this functionality. Thank you, Lindsey. And that's basically what we want.

Or sometimes, for the facilitator, we like putting a screenshot, because we need to know exactly where you want the participant to end up. And so we kind of like circle it. This is where they need to be if they never find that. Okay, pay attention to that. Yeah. 

It's a, multi-help, right? It's kind of like a help for the--and just to show a little bit of the drawing--it's like a facilitator guide help of the person, but also knowing you. But go ahead, Christina, I know that you were going to say something. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:33:13] Yeah, well, and this is the facilitator's guide. Um, just, just for additional context, this is, this is one of the MURALs that we're not actually sharing with the participant. They're not in here with us. It's the facilitator and the observers on the call. Um, the participant themself is interacting with the prototype or the software, or the product.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:33:34] And they're sharing their screen.

Christina Koffskey: [00:33:36] And they're--exactly--sharing their screen. So this is one of those that, the customer is not in here with us, um, but adding these screenshots and adding these different prompts to help the facilitator, uh, is really what I think this upfront part is about. You've got an area for the instructions. Um, like you said, the, the possible end points, and maybe prompts to, to redirect them if they don't get there. [00:34:00] Um, and then yeah, area for your general observations over, over to your right,

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:34:05] Go to some questions, right, based on what you wanted to do. All of these filled out green sections, these are all our agile teams. You know, these are, this, this is the reaction to it. This is what they struggled with. Um, Lindsey, if you go up a little bit, two above...okay, there you go. See that broken heart and that ex, uh, the exclamation point? We love that because we like that icon because we can directly put the broken heart, meaning this is a pain point that they expressed. Like, they cannot export their data out. You take that icon, you put it on the post-it, so that when you zoom out you're like, all right, what are all the major pain points that we identified here? It's so easy to identify those as a team.

Exclamation point means, like, we haven't even thought about this as an agile team, but yeah, they're like blurted out, like, pay attention to this because we haven't even thought about something like that. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:35:05] That's cool. Cause... so you're using like the, the depth, like the... we're in the detail. And even when you move out to, like, kind of a different altitude, as you're looking at, you know, holistically, we talked about four different tasks that someone, we want someone to do, you can almost use like those icons, like a little bit of a, as a heat map across it. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:35:24] That's it. A heat map is a great word for it.

Christina Koffskey: [00:35:27] Yeah. And technically you could even, um, if you want to make all your posts as one color and we use a Rose, Rose thorn bud, um, approach to taking notes, which, which would use a color code as well, kind of give you that heat map in addition to the, to the icons as an alternative to, we've done that before.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:35:49] Yes. I also mentioned that, um, the voting, but I want to mention the timer functionality in MURAL. You see how each of the tasks [00:36:00] have, like, okay, we're going to park on this task. We're going to gather all we can. Cause we ought to honor their time too, right? We're going to do this for 10 minutes. You literally can like, okay, we're going to begin task two. We're going to set the timer in MURAL, and it'll do... the whole team knows how much time that we have left. And so you get prodded, like, okay, we got two minutes left, we got to wrap this up type thing. And so I really love that as well. But setting that expectation, setting that time, um, allows the whole team to let's, let's keep on moving. Because, you know, some participant can just talk and talk and talk and talk and you get to one task. That's it.

Christina Koffskey: [00:36:38] Yeah, I was just about to say, time can easily slip away from you, uh, in usability testing. So having that, that the whole team is aware of, uh, using a timer feature is probably a good idea.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:36:50] Yeah. Yeah. It all slips away a little bit when we're talking about. Um, I just want, I'm just keeping an eye on the time links because I think it's super fascinating. I know a lot of, um, everybody that's joining, kind of listeners here, are probably super intrigued by, by, um, by this template. We will be sharing it. Um, I, I really, I... it's so interesting and I've really enjoyed learning about it. Is there anything last you want me to show before actually we talk a little bit about, you know, what, what are the big benefit? Like, so you've done this a bunch of times, right? What are, if someone can walk away from this conversation with a template in hand and the reasons, the talkable reasons to, uh, that it has been beneficial to you, what would those be?

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:37:34] Yeah, before we go there, Lindsey, I think it's worth mentioning that we have another template that we will be providing our participants as a bonus. Like, so you do--and these are usually individual one-on-one person, right? So you do kind of...How do you collate everything that everybody said? And so we actually have another template where it's our key, key takeaways template, [00:38:00] where you collate all of the responses for each of the tasks, and as a team you decide, okay, what are we really here? What, what are the patterns that emerged that we need to focus on? So there's, there's another template for that, the key takeaway. So, um, I didn't want to leave without mentioning that. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:38:19] I'm glad that you brought that up. A little, I don't know where that template is right now. That is on me.

Christina Koffskey: [00:38:31] It's not something that we were going to show. Uh, we just wanted let you know that we'll be sharing that with the resources at the end, uh, as a way to synthesize all your, all your feedback. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:38:44] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All right. We will definitely make sure to share for that. All right. Well, I... I love a bonus template. I love it. You don't want a bonus template. So you guys will be getting bonus template. So thank you, Grace, for reminding me of that.

What are the big benefits? And, um, let's take a look at that. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:39:05] Absolutely. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:39:07] You can just go boom right into the benefits. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:39:09] I love it. So lots of benefits here, but I, the first one that I want to talk about really is lowering that barrier, right? Challenges...you know, Lindsey, you were asking me about earlier like, a lot of them, just like... how do I start? Like, this is a framework. You have planning and logistics, you don't even have to think. Just collaborate with your team and then identify the task. Like, it really does lower the barrier, right? And so I actually want to share a quote that from a developer, this... I'm not making this up, right Christina?

Lindsey Eatough: [00:39:48] Right from the source. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:39:50] Directly from the source. I, and I'm going to read that. Basically, he said, you know, "Above all, this was my experience of a successful demo [00:40:00] using a structured template. Because of this experience, I feel more empowered to initiate considerations for demos, for future projects earlier in the development stage." That is the behavior you want. Yeah. And so just like, giving them a tool, structure, or format where to begin. Here it is. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:40:26] Because like we said earlier, this is kind of new for these, these agile teams. You know, this is not their expertise, user experience research or things like that. So whatever you can do to lower that barrier and make it more accessible, make them feel comfortable doing it, you know, that's the cherry on top. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:40:41] That's the keyword, is empowering the adjunct.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:40:44] Yeah. I love that.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:40:47] Yes. And so the other piece that we're seeing here is it's that streamlining the process. I like the way Lindsey said it the other day: it doesn't have to be so pretty even though it was...

Lindsey Eatough: [00:41:02] A good looking template, and I'm sure--as we're going through these key, these key, like, benefits and kind of takeaways, do you want to start seeing some people's questions coming in through the chat? Because we're getting close to that time.

But no, it's great.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:41:20] What's that? 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:41:21] It's great. I mean, it's like, it makes it so much more repeatable and easy and less daunting almost, if you will, to be able to do something over and over, right?

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:41:32] And that streamlining piece of it, it's, it's a, it's a quick and dirty thing that we can... we can do this real quickly, right?

Christina Koffskey: [00:41:40] Yeah. Yeah. 

And I just want to add on to that is because like, there are tons of different platforms, sophisticated platforms that are specifically designed for user testing, or doing user usability testing. Um, but this aligns more with... One, this is available to us. And two, it aligns with our kind of [00:42:00] qualitative quick and dirty approach, uh, to usability testing, where we're typically, we have our paper script, we're jotting down notes, and then we're getting together with our team to sort of synthesize all our notes.

Having this streamlines that process for us, because it's already digital, already there, ready. Like, we can make that step to start analyzing and synthesizing really quickly. Um, so that, that's part of how it has streamlined, yeah, um, our more quick and dirty approach to user testing. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:42:30] I'm intrigued by this last one, ladies, raising voices, just because... partially because I'm just loud in general. But tell me about it. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:42:39] Basically, you know what? First and foremost is hearing directly from our customers. It ends arguments based on opinion real quick. When our customers can say "These are our pain points," we know what to focus on, right? This one, um, help documentation usability study that, that we did, an SME or Subject Matter Expert who built this from the ground up. When she was able to hear some of the things that our customers were saying, another direct quote, she said, "Seeing users in action actually using the help and struggling with it has given me a more urgent desire to improve our health and address our users' needs." That was like another behavior. That's what we want. You know, like, that enthusiasm, that urgency, I must do something about it because our customers are telling me to fix that. So from the agile point of view, but also of raising the voices. Like, an example would be the validation we did with the Korea the other night. You know, some are introverts, right? Some are more comfortable, uh, adding their post-it notes rather than verbalizing their thoughts.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:43:58] And that's also [00:44:00] fine too. I know when I do talks about this, it's, some people will be more talkative with me and some people will write down, but the post-it notes kind of, like, levels the playing field a little bit. That's... I think that's kind of what you're getting to, like, a little bit, right?

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:44:14] Yes. There's so many voices that get raised actually, you know, from the perspective of our product marketing managers, who has to do some balancing act like the scope and the budget, and when do we release. But him or her hearing directly raises his voice. With the balancing act he's got to do with the product development team, he can now understand better these competing demands, right? But when he can focus what we need to prioritize based on what we hear, then there's no like, "Oh, I get it. I get why we need to do what we need to do for the next release."

Lindsey Eatough: [00:44:59] It's obvious, yeah. Yeah.

I have a quick question, ladies. We've got about 15 minutes left together. Time flies, truly, when you're having a great time. And, um, I know we promised 15 minutes to everybody for Q and A, but let's give them 10 minutes for Q and A, because there's some really great questions coming, coming in. But I was wondering about, for in the  next couple or five minutes or so, if we could... so we talked about--when we talked about how great you guys are--what Emerson is, right? How MURAL kind of started getting adopted at Emerson. But I would almost say not just MURAl, just digital collaboration, digital safe kind of stuff, like a little bit about that. And then we, let me start talking about the big, the shifts, right, that you've seen, because we're making shifts happen, you know? And then we went into the room, the actual template, to see a tangible example, right?

Um, what's, what's coming next? Do you see any... what, what are you thinking about in terms of further shifts in how your work is done [00:46:00] at Emerson? Can you talk to me a little bit about that? 

Christina Koffskey: [00:46:04] Yeah. Grace, I want, I want you to go first talking about more like the technology org, and then I'll echo at a, at a higher level that I see.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:46:12] So. I have a vision that one day... 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:46:19] I'm just in so intrigued, I'm coming close to the computer. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:46:23] No, you know, my boss and my, my boss's vision, my vision, technology's vision is to increase this customer engagement more and more and more and more, right? We see a future where, you know, MURAL is one thing, but it's that inviting our customers in-person to do refinement workshops.

So at the beginning of, um, the, an epic. An epic is like, think of it in this typical world as a huge project. You know, when you're trying to dissect and refine that epic, how about it? You know, having our actual customers from different industries whiteboarding with us with regard to their customer journey, right? We're we're thinking of building this epic, this project. What does the current process look like? Describe that to us.

And now let's pretend this thing is built. What does that journey look like? So just having them present, that's where we want to be. You know, MURAL is one thing, but having them in person to meet, not adopt teams, to meet.

We are, are getting for that, and that will happen, I think. Because we're talking more and more, and our VP of technology supports and knows the benefits and the value for having that. And so once you've got that support from the top, all the way down, it's going to happen.

The other thing I [00:48:00] believe is that design thinking will be seen as a competitive advantage, meaning it's always going to start with a why, right? And so we will be winning products, because it has gone through the design process and not just, "Oh, let's build this thing because it's cool." And it's just not...We are not our users. It's a mantra that I always have to turn back to. And the way we release is going to be, um, another shift for us, meaning it's... whatever the customers need, that's what they buy. Not like, "Here's a big, huge release, buy it all."

Lindsey Eatough: [00:48:44] But like here's what you actually need. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:48:47] Yeah. 

Christina Koffskey: [00:48:49] Yeah. And I'll piggyback on that. I'll, I'll try to be brief. Um, you know, she talked about, uh, 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:48:56] you know, that I'm staring at them, I'm staring at the clock, 

Christina Koffskey: [00:48:59] You're focused on customer centricity and that design thinking. And that is part of my job, is to scale that across Emerson, get more people thinking that way, thinking to visually collaborate, iterate, empathize. Um, and traditionally we've done that in person/ we do in-person, um, trainings and kind of, uh, consulting with that. I think that this year has forced us to, uh, approach things in different ways, to digitize things in a way that I really hope that we continue using, because we've seen how effective they are, even when we go back into the office, even when, when things can be done in person again.

Um, so one of our big things I think is really opening doors is, we virtualized our, um, our Luma training, that introduction to Human-Centered Design or design thinking, and it was huge success. We saw just as much engagement, um, and learnings when we did it virtually as we typically do in an in-person workshop, which we just never considered before this year kind of [00:50:00] forced us there.

Um, and so that is going to really open doors to the reach that we have. Um, to, to do more world area, um, collaboration and kind of trainings and get more, even more people, uh, thinking with that design-thinking lens. So that's the big picture where I want to see the shift go. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:50:21] Between the two of you, I mean, there's five shifts that we saw, five tons, and then between the two, there's like six coming to the future.

So, I mean, all I can say is, I can't wait to see what the two of you and broader team will accomplish, because I think the sky's the limit, um, based on the work that we've done together so far.

Would you...how do you guys feel about questions? 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:50:47] Lindsey, I forgot to add, uh, just one more thing with the next big shift. I know this is going to be happening because when, when it is a scrum master with their product development team doing a tech talk--like a TED talk but it's tech talk, technology talk--on ways to innovate and using design thinking, when you got a scrum master talking about this, the whole company, you know, a shift is going to happen.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:51:16] Oh man, that's incredible. I love that. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing that.

Um, so as we talked about, I'm going to be our Q and A quarterback here, uh, with the two of you wonderful ladies. We've got some great questions. I'm just going to start, we have them in some different sections here. I don't think, I mean, I don't know if I'm being followed, but I'm going to just send it to everybody cause I can do that if I want to.

Um, so Tina had a great question. Uh, we'll go from the Human-Centered Design perspective first.

Um, "I'm happy to see the promotion and value placed on HCD. When trying to show others the value of HCD, how do you handle questions about its ROI? Do you have any metrics you use? If not, [00:52:00] how do you respond?" And I'm going to keep a reminder of, we've got seven minutes. So answer the question, but like, not like how I would answer the question, really long.

Christina Koffskey: [00:52:10] Sure. 

Sure. So, so how I typically, uh, might respond to this is, the value of Human-Centered Design, um, is knowing that you are, uh, not only building the thing right, but building the right thing. Uh, so, you know, you can seclude yourself and not look outside, not look at your users, not look at their needs, their pains, and build something and get to the end, and it's completely off. It's completely wrong and you've just wasted time, energy and resources. Um, so taking a Human-Centered Design approach, it's, it's not adding more time into the process, which can be a common misconception. Um, it's just kind of reshifting where you put your focus, and bringing users in, um, to that process just kind of validates your decisions, um, as far as the, the return, uh, that you're getting. And I'm wondering, Grace, how you, how would you answer that question? 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:53:05] So I, I think you're spot on Christina. It's starting with a why. So not particularly with this, uh, Emerson, but I used to work for a company where it's like, there's this one customer screaming loudly, "You must build this for one customer." But our approach in our Human-Centered Design is that discovery phase, right? It's, I'm hoping some people are familiar with the double diamond divergent and convergent thinking where, you know, let's...why? Why are we doing what we're doing? And based on our market research and user research, defining what it is that we're going to, we're going to build, right, as a team.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:53:54] No, that, that actually kind of ties into Shelly's next question, is like, "How do you balance those..." [00:54:00] were you segueing to me? "How do you, how, how do you guys balance customer needs and business goals--" right, do you see this next one? "--so your teams can deliver meaningful value to both.

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:54:16] Yeah. Remember that tighter collaboration with the product marketing group that I mentioned earlier? Yeah. If you do that upfront--and I've done this, I can speak to that for sure--where it was just a crazy idea, and when we do a workshop with our actual customers about this whole big idea and the value add, it's really what you want to get to, right? What are the used cases? We've got this grand idea, but what value would it add? Would they buy it and would they  use it? Soif you  start with that partnership and collaboration way at the beginning--product marketing, agile teams and customers--you will get there. You will know what business goals you need to have and prioritize.

Lindsey Eatough: [00:55:01] It kind of ties to Shelly's followup question about how, "How does Emerson educate their teams and provide access to relevant customer data so that, um, so they can make an emotional connection? Do you use tools for archiving or retrieving these types of information?" 

Christina Koffskey: [00:55:21] So that's a great question.

Something I think we could do better at, that, that archiving and retrieving that type of data, because I think there's such a wealth of knowledge, um, across our company that is not always necessarily, uh, shared or leveraged by other groups.

As far as how do we make that emotional connection, building that empathy? We do encourage teams to go out and do field research, connect with customers. We have an annual users exchange where users come in, users of our, of Emerson, uh, come and collaborate with each other. Um, [00:56:00] so interacting with them at that type of event. Um, but as far as tools for archiving, unfortunately, I am... not that I'm aware of, um, that we're using 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:56:10] Archiving as in, um, allowing them to view the recordings of this session? I mean, that, that's one thing, right? But I think the, the forefront question is, uh, provide access to relevant customer data. Um, they're part of it, right? Um, whenever we do these sessions, we assign note takers. All of our agile team members working on this feature are on there. And then if people are not, being able to record those sessions is super important, and they're part of that debrief. So they're, they're alongside us the whole time. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:56:52] No, I love that.

So I'm going to give maybe a minute or two more for questions, and then--I can't believe we're we're towards the end of our time together, which is incredible--um, I want to do one from collaboration. I love all of the questions that were provided, so maybe you can provide your information, um, uh, right into the, into the chat to our panelists, um, for everybody that asks questions, and we can get kind of back to everybody. We have everybody's names with the questions as well. I want to make sure we kind of close the loop. Um, possibly we could do that with the rest of the questions. What do you guys think about that, Christina and Grace, since we're at the one minute mark? Maybe we can kind of get some answers, uh, to, to these folks out, at least 

Christina Koffskey: [00:57:30] Absolutely, absolutely. And we can, we can provide some answers here, uh, and so when they get sent out, um. But to answer Justin's question really quickly: yes. Uh, frequently. Um, that is a great way to invite users in. Um, and Grace kind of talked about that, doing some validation of ideas upfront, uh, workshops with, with users and customers. Yes. Yes. Yes. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [00:57:57] Yeah. So the, the one particular template we [00:58:00] talked about, it's more for the agile teams. But we do have other templates, like Christina said, where it's a different type of engagement where our customers are actually putting in their, their thoughts and their questions. We do that for when we're demoing a working software that the agile teams completed. And so you have somebody demoing the product, but behind the scenes our customers are, like, adding all kinds of stuff. This is what I think about what I'm seeing, here are the questions that I have. 

Lindsey Eatough: [00:58:28] And, you know, everybody wants to be heard. So I know Mason, thank you for... Mason shared his information to us, so, so like I said, I know that we have to kind of, um, sign off at the moment. I do want to be respectful of everybody's time, including the two of you wonderful ladies.

Um, so, um, something I just wanted to mention: the biggest thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Christina and Grace, for joining us today on MURAL Imagine. Um, it's absolutely incredible. You know I love to celebrate. It's amazing. Um, we appreciate MURAL members, MURAL pretty much superheroes in my mind, like you who share, um, how your teams are working together. Uh, Delta V, et cetera, and really changing the way work happens in your organization. So a big thank you, and kind of kudos to that.

Um, Next week, uh, we shift MURAL Imagine to talk to MURAL co-founder and head of product, the amazing Agus Soler, and the VP of product design, the wonderful Kit Unger. Um, and they're going to take on the virtual stage, um, to wrap up MURAL Imagine, our celebration of virtual collaboration. Um, they're going to be highlighting landmark advances in collaboration, showcase new MURAL features that you may have missed--which I'm pretty excited about--and, um, they're gonna be able to give you a first, a first look at what's coming in our releases and what we're going to be accomplishing in 2021. So make sure to re register.

And finally, in the next couple of days, we're going to send, um, a recap to [01:00:00] attendees of this session. So we'll include the template, the bonus template, um, template, um, and some of the answers to these questions. So thank you again, you two. Um, it has been truly a pleasure since I've been here at MURAL to work with both of you, and I'm looking forward to seeing everybody next week on MURAL Imagine. 

Mary Grace Francisco: [01:00:21] Yeah. 

Christina Koffskey: [01:00:21] Thanks for having us so much. 

Lindsey Eatough: [01:00:23] Thank you both. Thank you.